My take on free will

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Postby eebamxela » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:56 pm

My responses to your bullshit ones are not in your control. Nor are they in my control. The urge to respond to you originates in my brain where little chemical impulses are firing at the speed of light that tell my hands to log into the forum and type type type type till the cows come home. And by "cows" i mean "your brain".

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Postby Elman » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:24 pm

eebamxela wrote:My responses to your bullshit ones are not in your control. Nor are they in my control. The urge to respond to you originates in my brain where little chemical impulses are firing at the speed of light that tell my hands to log into the forum and type type type type till the cows come home. And by "cows" i mean "your brain".

Image

Elman responds: I don't believe you were forced to respond as you do. I think you chose to do so and I believe you could have chosen to respond in a different way than you did.
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Postby Diagoras » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:05 am

You don't seem to understand the difference between free will and decision making. I would recommend you listen to this podcast, where Massimo Pigliucci eloquently demonstrates why having the ability to make decisions is not the same as having free will:
http://atheistviewpoint.tv/qt/602.mp3
“Oh Neddy, it was terrifying. I thought I was headed for the eternal bliss of paradise!â€
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Postby Elman » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:20 pm

Diagoras wrote:You don't seem to understand the difference between free will and decision making. I would recommend you listen to this podcast, where Massimo Pigliucci eloquently demonstrates why having the ability to make decisions is not the same as having free will:
http://atheistviewpoint.tv/qt/602.mp3


I cannot receive sound on my computer. I have no speakers. Why don't you just tell me what the difference is between free will and being able to make decisions?
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Postby eebamxela » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:43 pm

look it up you lazy ass
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Postby Elman » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:50 pm

eebamxela wrote:look it up you lazy ass
I guess that means you cannot answer the question.
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Postby bugsoup » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:53 pm

Elman wrote:
eebamxela wrote:look it up you lazy ass
I guess that means you cannot answer the question.
No. The Podcast is 25 minutes long. How much time do you expect us to spend to help you learn something? How long would it take for you to transcribe 25 minutes of discussion?
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Postby Elman » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:16 pm

bugsoup wrote:
Elman wrote:
eebamxela wrote:look it up you lazy ass
I guess that means you cannot answer the question.
No. The Podcast is 25 minutes long. How much time do you expect us to spend to help you learn something? How long would it take for you to transcribe 25 minutes of discussion?

Are you saying it would take you 25 minutes to state the difference between free will and making decisions?
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Postby eebamxela » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:34 pm

omg just put some freaking headphones on
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Postby Elman » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:52 pm

eebamxela wrote:omg just put some freaking headphones on
I don't have any. I guess another reason for posting here is to see you get annoyed and beat your head on the computer keys.
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Postby fastthumbs » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:54 pm

I get quite a chuckle out of that particular cartoon (whoever made it, sheer genius!). I imagine quite a few regulars metaphorically end up bashing their brains out when dealing with others here.

Elman,

Does this cartoon character suffer from a form of "self-hate"? Is that a sin, to loathe and hate oneself?
- Andrew
What you may believe may not be true and what may be true you may not believe! (- My brother)
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Postby bugsoup » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:57 pm

Elman wrote:
eebamxela wrote:omg just put some freaking headphones on
I don't have any. I guess another reason for posting here is to see you get annoyed and beat your head on the computer keys.
That sounds like a very loving thing to do.
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Postby eebamxela » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:02 am

Typical douche bag: intentionally annoying people. Nice.
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Postby Diagoras » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:03 am

Elman wrote:
Diagoras wrote:You don't seem to understand the difference between free will and decision making. I would recommend you listen to this podcast, where Massimo Pigliucci eloquently demonstrates why having the ability to make decisions is not the same as having free will:
http://atheistviewpoint.tv/qt/602.mp3


I cannot receive sound on my computer. I have no speakers. Why don't you just tell me what the difference is between free will and being able to make decisions?

Try reading my posts maybe? Didn't you see me trying to explain that concept numerous times?

Free will = the ability to make a decision that is NOT random and NOT predetermined based on the factors your brain uses to make the decision

Decision making = your brain calculating what it considers the best decision in a certain situation

Yes, you can make decisions (like any properly programmed computer can) but your decisions are based on the things that caused them, whether you like it or not. You can't actually rewind your life to see if you could really choose a different decision, so your assertion that you "feel" you could do so is completely irrelevant.

You seem to think there's some part of the decision making process that isn't caused by anything, yet you refuse to explain to us three key things. You aren't going to convince anyone here until you tell us:
1) what free will is
2) what the non-random, non-deterministic process is by which free will chooses its decisions
3) what the mechanism is that our free will (presumably something in the "spiritual" realm) uses to convert those decisions into brain chemicals and muscle movements
“Oh Neddy, it was terrifying. I thought I was headed for the eternal bliss of paradise!â€
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Postby Elman » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:51 pm

bugsoup wrote:
Elman wrote:
eebamxela wrote:omg just put some freaking headphones on
I don't have any. I guess another reason for posting here is to see you get annoyed and beat your head on the computer keys.
That sounds like a very loving thing to do.
Your right but it is so easy. I can seem to do it without any effort on my part.
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