Heay Rock

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Heay Rock

Postby mbresciani » Wed May 20, 2009 12:02 am

Hi there,

I am new to the forums and would like to propose a counterpoint that addresses the "Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?" paradox.

I have added the following to the Wiki:

Of course a person of the Catholic faith might argue that this paradox can be resolved by the idea of the "Holy Trinity", in so much that the "Heavenly Father" could easily create a rock that Jesus, being human, could not lift. Since they believe the "Heavenly Father" and Jesus are one and the same, Catholics in theory can answer the question with a clear "yes".
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Postby Edward » Wed May 20, 2009 7:07 am

Rather irrelevant... Different denominations won't accept that answer, and besides, the question isn't if God can make a rock Jesus can't lift. It'd be a bogus response that amounts to "god can but he chooses not to", which doesn't answer the question.

Besides, the point of that question is to show that omnipotence is impossible.
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I beg to differ..

Postby mbresciani » Wed May 20, 2009 2:25 pm

Yes Edward, and the Buddhists and the Atheists and etc. will all have their take on it too, but it wasn't the veracity of the addition that I was pointing out. Setting aside the "holy ghost", of whom I deny ;-), it was the properties of duality contained within the Trinity which offered a very unique construct.

ie According to Catholic doctrine, "The Heavenly Father" = God = Jesus = He

So you actually can substitute "Jesus" for "He" in the meaning of the question because of this equivalency, and substitute "The Heavenly Father" for "God" and take it to read:
Q1. Can "The Heavenly Father" create a rock so heavy that Jesus can't lift? Answer 1: Yes, Paradox? No

You can also plug in the values and read the question as:
Q2. Can Jesus create a rock so heavy that "The Heavenly Father" can't lift? Answer 2: No, Paradox? No

In these first 2 cases the paradox is resolved as each form of the question is no longer self-contradictory, even though they contradict each other on the whole.

Further more, the idea of the Trinity also allows for 2 more versions that is inconsistent to the premise of an all mighty being.

Q3. Can "The Heavenly Father" create a rock so heavy that "The Heavenly Father" can't lift? Answer 3: ?!?, Paradox? Yes, if He exists and is omnipotent.
(Which is the standard meaning of the original question)

and finally:

Q4. Can Jesus create a rock so heavy that Jesus can't lift? Answer 4: ?!?, Paradox? Yes, if He exists and is omnipotent.

In summary, because of the peculiar nature of the Trinity, Catholics are the only ones that have the choice to logically resolve the paradox and answer "yes" to the question, and remain consistent and true to their beliefs. In this case they can prove the plausibility of omnipotence, as long as they excuse themselves and hurry home after they have answered the first form of the question.
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Postby Edward » Wed May 20, 2009 8:08 pm

"Besides, the point of that question is to show that omnipotence is impossible."

That's all there is to it. The rest is pointless. Reword the question however you like, if god can do something he can't undo, he isn't all powerful, and if he can't do something he can't undo, he isn't all powerful.

Besides, your response is flawed. If god is Jesus and Jesus is god, if one can do something the other can too. If Jesus can't do it, neither can big daddy.
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Postby donnyton » Wed May 20, 2009 8:55 pm

Yeah all that does is move the question.

If God can make a rock that Jesus can't lift, then Jesus isn't God. If Jesus is God, he should be able to lift every rock that God can lift.

All it does is move the paradox to the Trinity. If you're going to give an apologetic at least follow it up with the corresponding link to the counterapologetic.
"To say that it's not okay to believe in something that may or may not be true is ridiculous. Some people like to have that mystical fantasy in the world. It adds flavor."
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Postby dromedaryhump1 » Thu May 21, 2009 12:40 am

Catholics subscribe to the Creed of Chalcedon which holds that jesus was both wholly human and wholly divine.


"... truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body;
consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood;..."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalcedonian_creed

Thus, saying Catholics would accept that the Godhead could make a stone too heavy for Jesus the God who is "cosubstantial" with him to lift , is I believe erroneous.
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Postby anthonyvh » Sat May 23, 2009 4:41 am

God can only lift the rock if the trinity combines to form Voltron.
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Re:

Postby raymond » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:36 pm

anthonyvh wrote:God can only lift the rock if the trinity combines to form Voltron.


absolutely fantastic
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Re: Heay Rock

Postby sepia » Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:11 pm

Yes, the trinity is irrelevant, because God is not just Jesus or just the Holy Spirit or just the Holy Father. God is all of them and this means, if one of them can do something God can do it.
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Re: Heay Rock

Postby SkyDaddy » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:45 am

I didn't read most of these posts, but the answer to this question is that it is a trick question.
It is like asking can god create the uncreatable.
Because he can do anything, he can make a rock of infinite weight, and can lift a rock of ANY weight, It is a nonsensical question and is more on par with the nonsense gibberish apologists usually use to confuse opponents and give listeners a false sense of superiority in the presenter.

A better question is, why would an all powerful and all knowing being do anything?
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